More Discussions on Prop 8: Fine Line & Kokema

Some good videos, thoughts and discussions on prop 8



Part 2 ...



Some really good thoughts, by a very intelligent woman. I don't agree with all of what she says, but she raises some Very Good issues.

Below is a discussion from "Fine Line" - which is very good, and worth listening to. But first let me address some of what she is saying.

Interracial Marriage is about a man, and a woman. Gender is not the same as sexual preference. She raises the point, that it's inconclusive if homosexuality is Nature or Nurture - which is indeed the Biggest Unsettled aspect of this argument.

There is no question however, on if you're born black, or born white - born a man, or born a woman. What happens after that, generally has more to do with environment than 'genes' - sure, genes play a role ... but, that's all it does.

Why do people join gangs? Were they born a gangster?

Why do people practice racism? Were they born a racist?

Why do people practice religion? Were they born religious?

Silly questions To some I'm sure - but for some reason it's not silly to say...

Why do people practice homosexuality? Were they born homosexual?

The answer, to me, is clearly no. This was something they chose to do... often for various reasons. What people learn at home, and from experiences they have, has a great deal to do with who, and what they become.

Studies show, that wealthy people THINK differently from poor people - Different influences create different results. Men who sleep with lots of women, were often raised differently from Men who make a concerted effort Not to sleep with lots of women. Same goes for women who sleep with lots of men, vs those who do not.

What I'm saying is, People who are gay, experienced a different environment from people who are not gay. I've had gay friends ... They were from single parent homes; often raised by women, with not much Male influence.

My father gave me something very different than my Mother. It has everything to do with the chemicals flowing through our bodies; that makes us view the world differently. Men don't see all subjects the same way Women do... like sports, or shopping. Below, is a very good discussion from people who are addressing this issue further. My hope, is that you'll listen to what they're saying, and not just discard it because it doesn't fit your views; Listen, because it is possible your views are simply misinformed...

Isn't banning gay marriage the same as banning Interracial Marriage?

You're trying to impose your religion. What about separation of church and state?

Half of marriages end up in divorce, so why not allow same-sex marriages? Maybe they'll do better statistically?

Often here in America, we do not research topics - we let someone Tell us what to think on Issues. Look into his comments about Norway and Sweden; See if what He's saying is true ... or not true.

Isn't it true that kids need a loving family regardless of whether it's with a mother or father?

Why shouldn't homosexuals have the same right to marry according to their orientation?

Same Sex Marriage Doesn't Affect Me. Why should I be against it?

A very good conversation there folks... I hope you listened.

This issue also speaks to our current Misunderstandings of Gender. I speak on this often here at ThaShow, that our Relationships are suffering; our Views of Gender are off base - and this problem is mostly being created by Feminist - who just so happen to hate men, and often tend to be gay.

By undermining the Importance of Gender - many are misinformed about the differences between men and women. These Differences should not be used to elevate one gender over another, because like is the case with many successful "teams" - Not all players have the same abilities - but working Together their strengths and weaknesses balance out - and goals are achieved.

Again, this 'waterned down' view of Gender, like racism towards blacks, that All is the same, when all is NOT the same, confuses people. Men and Women are NOT the same.

So, "marriage" between a man and a man or a woman and a woman, is NOT the same as marriage between a Man, and a Woman; it's a totally Different game.

I think what is also happening is, people are Ignoring the other side of the argument. They get on the side that it's Right, that it's just like everything else, and then, they refuse to consider the possibility that its Not the same; So they Ignore any argument that says it is. It's important to Listen... to both sides.

Feel free to leave your comments on this matter below...

Gay Rights vs Black People's Rights.... (prop 8)

Message to white people: "Gay rights are not the same as Black People's Rights."

This has been the campaign message of people who support Gay Marriage; That it's the same as what black people went through.

As a black man, I personally get tired of having Everyone's struggle compared to the Black American Struggle, as if All struggles are equally the same.

People often totally disregard the Huge Differences, and simplify the complexities of Racism, Slavery, and Legalized Segregation that occurred for 400 years here in America. They Minimize what actually happened, and in my opinion lose perspective.

This is why The Black Vote in this past election was overwhelmingly in support of Prop 8, to ban gay marriage; Because we know, it's not the same.

Many white people however, are baffled by this outcome. They do not understand how we could vote in a Black President, but Vote Down the "rights" of Gay people.

So, allow me to help all of the people out there who are baffled by this, to finally understand why Gay Rights are NOT the same as Black People's Rights.

Frankly, it's almost offensive - but I tend to understand these matters spring from a general Lack of Understanding: So let us begin.

Gay People are NOT being Discriminated against. Let me explain why this is.

Gay people can eat anywhere they like. They are Never refused service.
Blacks were often NOT allowed to eat in restaurants at all, or were subjected to eat in dimly lit, small and crowded 'back rooms' - and were often given the Scraps.

Gay People can Live in any Neighborhood they want to live in.
Blacks were often NOT allowed to buy homes, or rent in certain areas. When this ban was lifted, Still Real Estate Agents would Refuse to sell homes to blacks in these neighborhoods; Many people feel this practice still takes place today, though not on as large of a scale. Gay people are NOT facing this issue.

Gay People can get any Job they want.
Blacks for a long time were NOT being hired for jobs by white people. To this day it is speculated that Racial Discrimination Still takes place when it comes to who gets hired to work in certain establishments. Many blacks become discouraged, after putting in job applications for months and not getting calls back. Gay people do not experience this problem. They are NOT being discriminated against.

Gay people can attend any school they want to attend.
Blacks, for a long time were NOT allowed to attend "white schools" - schools were built "For blacks only" which often were not as good as the White ones. To this day, the inequality in the school system is present. Kids in 'white schools' recieve a far better education than kids in what used to be 'black schools' but are now more and more becoming 'hispanic schools' - again, Gay people do not face this challenge. They can recieve a quality education, especially if they are white; and no one is discriminating against them, keeping them from learning, just because they're gay.

Allow me to take a moment to address Inequalities in the School System. This effects black people for Life. There is a Generational Ignorance that has been created because of this American Policy NOT TO EDUCATE black people.

What I'm saying is, My Grandmother was not educated in White Schools. Neither was my Father; My Mom had the benefit of being an "army brat" and while my Grandfather was stationed in Germany, she received a 'white education' on the army base. Had she been in America, she would not have been afforded a quality education. So what this means is, Entire Generations of Black people do not know about many, simple ideas in America. It creates a divide of Ideology that helps keep black people where they've been since the end of Slavery...

Poor, or living in Poverty - prone to commit crimes due to lack of education and lack of opportunities - No education means u can't get certain well paying jobs; it means you wont know how to Start your Own business - A vacuum of negativity emerges and often engulfs black people - Some escape, Most do not.

Read ThaShowOnline.com - I have discussed these issues at length. And most white people do NOT understand any of these issues, simply because These issues are NOT being addressed in white schools; It's not being discussed in the homes of white people, and when it is, often what Is being discussed are not Truths; but 'racist' ideas. Such as, If black people would just work harder and make better choices, they'd be better off.

Sounds great; and while it may be true... if black people are not being "taught" this... how can you expect them to Know? It'll take me all day to delve into this issue, but I want to get back to what we were discussing.

Gay People are NOT being discriminated against.

They are allowed to practice homosexuality - There is an entire street here in Hollywood, CA that is full of Gay Bars, and Gay Clubs - If you're a black man who prefers to date white women, there are no Streets for Interracial Bars and Clubs. If you're a man who's got a sexual fetish, a leg fetish, or a foot fetish, or a women in leather fetish, there are no Streets for Fetish Lovers, with Fetish Bars and Fetish Clubs.

Homosexuality is a "sexual preference" - You may believe they were born gay. I personally do not. It is a choice that they make. If you believe they never had a choice, then I can understand why you'd think they're being discriminated against. But also, it's because you do not realize what black people Actually Went Through.

History has been condensed for you - you have been given the 'jist' of what happened, but not the 'details' - So you've been told it's all the same, and you believe it.

You have been Lied to.

You have been Misled.

Wanna know what Gay Marriage is really about?

Money.

They want the 'right' to get paid when their loved one dies - They want the 'right' to have tax benefits usually granted to married couples. There is already something in place called "Civil Unions" that would allow gay people to do all the things that 'marriage' does; It doesn't force those who do not approve of homosexuality to accept those beliefs; nor does it put churches at risk of being sued, and closed down, which would effect it's Members, often people with serious issues who Need prayer and a place of refuge; The only thing it does not give them is ... Money.

If you really feel Gay rights are the same as Black Rights; You need to use your time online to research what "actually happened" to black people - and what many black people feel is Still happening.

Gay people do not get pulled over by the police, just because they're gay.

DUI Checkpoints are not set up in Gay Neighborhoods - resulting in gay people being sent to jail for DUI's, or Not having their Tags up to date, or whatever else the police happen to find.

Gay people are not being Targeted and Shot by the police.

Gay people are not being accused of being Unamerican, for disagreements with the way things are, in America.

Gay people are NOT going through what Black people are going through. They're just Not. I'm sorry white people... but you've been lied to. You've been mislead.






On another note...

White people... when are you going to take these kinds of passionate stances, to END Racism??

I mean, so long as you wanna stand up to end discrimination for gays, where is the effort to end discrimination towards blacks?

Even up the Schools - Change and Challenge the attitudes of white people who do not believe in Dating Black people - Challenge Hispanic Owned Fast Food Joints, that currently ONLY hire Hispanics or ONLY hire 1 black person to make it 'appear' equal. Help fight the War on Poverty (the forgotten war in America) - to fix the economic disparity between blacks and whites....

No offense white people (those of you who've been mislead and lied to) - but you can't fight for the civil rights of one group, while comparing them to a group who's rights are STILL not fully realized.

And what about Africa? A Continent that was literally raped and pillaged of it's resources (it's people) and is currently suffering the after-effects - rumors of AIDS being created to kill black people, should be taken seriously - since it appears to be affecting one race more than any other.

White people, one battle at a time... You've got to complete what your ancestors started. Once you help fix Racism, Once you address that issue, and fix it's inequalities and it's current forms of discrimination, Then you'll have Perspective.

You can then learn how to reach a compromise, that works to help Gay people, and doesn't offend Straight people who simply do not believe in homosexuality.

Good luck to you all... I hope this has helped.

white entitlement & supremecy

... a must listen to

The Struggle of Racism : Obama says "Lay off my Wife"

In the ongoing struggle to recover as a nation from Racism and all of it's misunderstandings, we are whitnessing ongoing evidence that White people do not understand Black People. Mike Malloy made this statement on air just the other day; a Rare moment in America, when a White male comments on the White race in a manner that is True - and Not Racist, or Hate filled; We saw this with the remarks of Rev. Wright, how so many whites reacted to his statements, calling them hate filled, and racist; All he was doing was sharing the black perspective; and the same goes for Michelle Obama - I'll let you read the story; Click the link there is a video of the interview available - watch it, and my comments are below.

Obama tells Tenn.'s GOP: 'Lay off my wife'

Mon May 19, 7:58 AM ET

Democrat Barack Obama has a message for Tennessee's Republican Party: "Lay off my wife."

Obama, his party's presidential front-runner, and his wife, Michelle, were asked in an interview aired Monday on ABC's "Good Morning America" about an online video last week by the state's GOP taking her to task for a comment some considered unpatriotic.

"The GOP, should I be the nominee, can say whatever they want to say about me, my track record," Obama said. "If they think that they're going to try to make Michelle an issue in this campaign, they should be careful because that I find unacceptable, the notion that you start attacking my wife or my family."

He called the strategy "low class."

The video, posted on YouTube, centered on remarks Michelle Obama made while campaigning in Wisconsin last February, when she said: "For the first time in my adult life, I am really proud of my country."

The four-minute video replayed the remark six times, interspersing it with commentary by Tennesseans on why they are proud of America. In a news release that included a link to the video, Tennessee's GOP said "the Tennessee Republican Party has always been proud of America." It urged radio stations to play "patriotic music" during Michelle Obama's visit to Nashville last Thursday.

Michelle Obama later clarified the remark, saying she meant she was proud of how Americans were engaging in the political process and that she had always been proud of her country.

"Whoever is in charge of the Tennessee GOP needs to think long and hard about the kind of campaign they want to run, and I think that's true for everybody, Democrat or Republican," Obama said in the ABC interview, adding: "These folks should lay off my wife."

Obama said his wife "loves this country. For them to try to distort or to play snippets of her remarks in ways that are unflattering to her is, I think, just low class. I think that most of the American people would think that as well."

Tennessee's Republican Party was roundly criticized in March, including by likely presidential nominee John McCain, for a news release that used Barack Obama's middle name — Hussein — and showed a photo of him wearing what it said was "Muslim attire."

The release ultimately was removed from the party's Web site at the urging of the state's two Republican senators and Republican National Committee Chairman Mike Duncan, who said he "rejects these kinds of campaign tactics."

When Michelle states that she was finally proud of her country, and the GOP makes a video responding with 'i've always been proud' - they are not taking into account the black experience.

It baffles me, the sheer numbers of whites, who fully expect black people to absolutely LOVE everything about America; who are shocked if a black person has any complaints whatsoever about this country.

What planet do these people live on? Have they forgotten what this country has done to black people for 400 years?? I know they want black people to forget; They want black people to pretend that racism is no longer with us - even though plenty of black people still experience racism on a daily basis; what is wrong with these people that they fail to see the need for us to work together to make this country something that All Americans Can truly be proud of? Do they not get that in order to get there, this racism thing MUST END.

White people MUST make the effort to change their culture; and specifically how their culture views black people - treats black people - and (how they view/treat) issues that effect black people.

I know this is a shock to many whites; but black people do not trust them; Not enough has been done to Show black people that the white race has changed; So, when Michelle Obama made that remark, rather than take offense to it - how about recognize the comment for what it was - the opportunity to find out just what could make Other black people, Proud of this country.

What can be done?

What Needs to be done?

These are the types of questions that beg to be asked; If we don't ask the right questions we will never get the right answers.

Barrack vs. Clinton - In PA

Once again, they went at it folks...

And once again they are harping on Barrack's assocation with Rev. Wright.

Again, I take issue with how the media turns a blind eye to the history of this country; which I Just wrote about, as only having the potential to be great; Because of it's past, the comments made by Reverend Wright, were right. They were truthful; and yet they continue to try to 'spin' this in a negative direction;

Click here to watch the debate between them on this topic:

What do you think of all this? It's clearly not going away, so was he "Wright?"

Clinton talks about how we need to find a way to bring people together, and I agree - we do; and I will continue to say the only way to do this, is to get White People to stop talking so positively about every aspect of America - to stop being so Polarizing, to get rid of the "You're ether with us all the way, or you're against us" ... if you dont see everything about America's past as a positive.

It's completely unrealistic, and inconsiderate towards black people to take this tone; and to tell black people that they NEED To also have this tone, or else they're Un-American.

America has never stood for justice or equality for black people.

America has never had the backs of black people in this country; and Recent events like Katrina don't help change that perception; the ongoing problems in black communities which NOBODY seems to care about, doesn't help change that perception. And the actions our media is taking to completely disregard the point made by this preacher, to call his comments crazy, divisive, and the like - none of those actions or decisions change the perception, that America does not care about black people.

I called into the Tammy Bruce show a couple weekends ago and had this very conversaton with her on the air; I let her know that she influences many people listening to her show, and that it's irresponsable of her to make the kinds of comments she makes on the air; Comments that equate this man to a psychotic nutjob; All in efforts to undermine his message...

If you do wrong to others - others will want to do wrong to you.

America is a country that has, and in many people's eyes, continues to do wrong to others; So ... others will want to do wrong to America.

What's so divisive about that? What's so crazy ... so odd?

We're talking about Human Nature here...

anyways, that's my thoughts on this matter, please be sure to share yours below.

Watch Obama discuss "patriotism" & "manufactured issues":

Also, watch Barrack "Brush his Shoulders off" as he discusses the "new record" set by last night's debate: